Divorce Attorney vs Therapist
I say all the time, that the Attorney and Therapist, have the same clients.
Attorneys should have a rolodex of competent Therapists that they refer to because if their client falls apart, that’s not good for business or court, now is it.
For myself, 100% I keep a list of attorneys that are on my sh!t list, the ones I hear about who screw over my clients. There are many attorneys for whom the actions they take, make no sense to me, looks like they bilk clients for as much money as they can get out of them. When I feel like an attorney did a great jo for my client, I refer when I’m asked for a good attorney recommendation. Those attorneys don’t know me nor do they know that I refer to them. I’m not in it for the Quid Pro Quo, if I hear you’re good, I will refer. It’s that simple.
It’s not helpful for my clients, if they lose custody of their kids, lose all their money and become even more bitter and disillusioned from a divorce. For their mental health, I try to stabilize my clients when they’re in duress. I keep my own list of attorneys that I know the results of cases, I’ll refer if you’re good at your job.
So yes, there’s a symbiotic dynamic between the Attorney and the Therapist, it’s not that we work together but our clients are the same. Although yes, I have talked to attorneys on client request, but the client pays for this, that’s not therapy. Also, very rare, the Therapist does not want to talk to the attorney, it’s the unusual exception that I’ve done this. The symbiotic relationship is not mutually working together, it’s that the Attorney and Therapist, have the same clients, there’s a mutual awareness on my end as the client in duress is often in the midst of a difficult divorce or nasty child custody battle.
I listened to this almost 2-hour interview with James Sexton, click on the below link if you want to watch it too.
Divorce Attorney on signs of a doomed relationship
I’ve never heard of James Sexton before nor have I read his books, this was my very first exposure to him and yes, I did listen to the entire interview. He made many interesting points, I’ll focus on 30 of them.
James Sexton is anti-marriage in a way, in that he has questions about it, he doesn’t necessarily think it’s a good thing. Let’s just put it this way, he’s not #TeamMarriage. Whereas I’m a Therapist for which my niche is couples counseling, I’m actually pro marriage. This is a man whose job is to facilitate the dissolution of marriage, of course, he’s biased as he sees people at their worst and also the worst cases for 25 years.
As a Therapist, my clients come to me at the reveal of an affair, when they’re considering divorce, while separated, the whole 9 yards. I see a lot too! In fact, whereas James Sexton sees the dirt, for sure, I am delving into the WHY and helping my clients process that they cheated or that they were cheated on. Affairs are common, Therapist Ester Perel believes most people are affected either as the person who knows about the secret or that they are the secret.
By the nature of his job, of course, that man is a skeptic of marriage. I should be disillusioned too, by the nature of my work, but I am surprisingly not. Let’s take a look at 30 of the points divorce Attorney James Sexton makes, I’ll give my rejoinder as a Therapist who works with the individuals and couples with everything on the table: break-ups, dating, divorce, affairs, child custody, family alienation, romance, love, relationships, lust.
Let’s Roll
In bold are the points James Sexton made, either verbatim or loose paraphrase.
Rock n’ Roll
JAMES: 1. You see a different side of someone when they’re going through a divorce. How do you treat someone when you’re breaking up with them.
RACHEL: I always say, it’s hard to really know how someone is when the affair is revealed, at the point of separation, during the divorce, while in a child custody trial. People go crazy, they are in crisis. If you act out when you catch your wife sexting another man or you find out your husband has been in a long-term affair, I expect that. Even the most normal and average guy or gal, can blow their sh!t when the crazy hits the fan. How things are at the highest temperature level, when tempers are flaring, you’re in shock and very angry, humiliated also despondent and depressed may be different 1-3 years down the line when the divorce is finalized and you are even managing to co-parent amicably enough. I am pragmatic, realize that in crisis people act out. Often people show their worst sides when they’ve been betrayed, when money is on the line and egos are hurt. I always notice how people act during a break-up, affair, divorce but I also remind my clients that things may get better or be different on the other side of the court case or trial. Most people act out, often badly when they’re being left, cheated on, divorce papers filed but once in awhile, an individual does the right thing even under incredible duress. Absolutely, pay attention to how someone acts in a break-up or divorce, it’s very telling for their discipline, fairness, character and morality.
JAMES: 2. Think about what battles are worth fighting for.
RACHEL: To be fair to attorneys, their job is to do what the client wants. Most likely, it’s not always that the attorney bilked the client for billable hours, sometimes the client wanted to fight. As a Therapist, to me the close to unforgivable sin is when one parent weaponizes the children against the other parent. If there is physical, mental or sexual abuse then you as the parent protect your children. But if your soon to be ex-husband or ex-wife is a good dad or mom, do not keep the children from them. I issue this strong warning to parents, that you are harming your children when you do this. Because children need both the role model of the father and the mother, to keep children away from a parent is close to an unforgivable sin in my mind. You do this, you are ruining your son or daughter, that they will not understand gender or family roles and they will grow up to be predatory themselves or unable to find love because they never had a healthy relationship with their parents. If there’s a battle worth fighting, it’s child custody, in my mind. You can lose your money or the house, but do not lose access to your children. The other more minor point, is that you can spend 6 figures several times over or even millions of dollars for high stakes litigation as James Sexton does for the rich and famous. Recommend you be fair, split assets and take care of your children, do what’s reasonable in lieu of fighting endlessly in court. James Sexton made the comment that you can give the money to the spouse or to him, and he meant fighting it out in court via legal fees. I think the same, that instead of anger and bitterness driving you to fight, try to be fair and reasonable in order to spend less and court and also get it over with. Fighting for years to get divorced is not good for your mental health.
JAMES: 3. Emotional intimacy is scary but needed for a relationship.
RACHEL: I often help my clients process when they overshare with new romantic partners. This is the way to stay psychologically safe, that you reveal more as you both vet and as that person deserves. Do you need to tell someone on a first date that you struggle with pornography addiction, you’re an alcoholic and you cheated on most of your girlfriends? Those things are your private struggles, and you share as you learn that the other person is safe, that they can handle it and that they deserve to know more about you. But I’m adamant that when you get closer to being exclusive, you need to ramp up the vetting, you must ask the hard questions and also reveal more about yourself. 100% you need to reveal more to your actual girlfriend or wife or your romantic relationship will never have depth, staying power and real intimacy. But you have to vet and you have to decide who deserves to know more about you before you dive off the emotional cliff. If you overshare with a predatory woman or douchebag man, you will get hurt as they will weaponize your secrets against you and use them to control you. Be careful, but also realize that if you want a meaningful relationship, when you commit to someone, you will need to share with them your real self if you want a shot at making that romance last.
JAMES: 4. People love to beat up on the wait staff at restaurants.
RACHEL: It’s all over my Substack articles, that I say that an easy way to vet early, is to notice how your date treats the servers at restaurants. When that woman bats her eyelashes and coos up at the rich man, then barks at the waiter as if he’s a prop, that’s not good. When that man is brusque with wait staff, but rushes to be super polite to his date, that’s not good. Because however that person treats others, will often be how they eventually treat you. After the honeymoon stage and lust wears off, guess what, you will now be the recipient of impatience, rudeness and anger. It also says something about that person’s core character. When you faun over someone you view as important but brush off the person you think is a nobody, that means you are very fake. If you find glee in putting down someone you view as beneath you, doubtful you have true confidence. Because if you were truly comfortable with yourself and felt uber confident, you wouldn’t feel the need to put down others to make yourself feel like the big man on campus. People put down others more as a show, to display that they are hot and you are not, but it’s just that . . . a show. Because anyone with real confidence, doesn’t need to put someone else down, to feel better about themselves. For dating and for vetting, watch how your new Boo treats the wait staff. If tht person is nice to you but rude to others, guess what, you’re next in line to be yelled at, belittled or made fun of. Take that to the bank.
JAMES: 5. Who you are in the marriages is often how you are in the divorce.
RACHEL: You develop your core character in a thousand mini ways before you ever have that big decision. That’s why discipline, being fair, having compassion and being kind need to be practiced in your everyday life vs suddenly expecting in a big moment that you’ll pass a crucial test. Before you ever have courage or are brave, you exhibited this in small ways first. How this factors into relationships, is that we often show our best selves on first dates and during the honeymoon phase of the newbie romance. Then we kick up our feet as if our job is done when someone agrees to be exclusive or years into the relationship. It’s a misnomer that once you’re married, that you’re job is done. Actually, your husband or wife, can leave you. And with a 48% first marriage rate and a 56% divorce rate, many of you will actually end your marriage. No, your job is not done when you say “I do” and your spouse can leave you. Marriage is work, and divorce is devastating on the children, your assets and your mental health. You are better off being vigilant and trying even harder once you tie the knot. If you barely try, why are you surprised when your spouse leaves you. And why are you surprised that you were belligerent, angry, disrespectful to your spouse in the marriage and they are just as rude during the divorce. You have a core character, you hide things to others but often put on full display your true self in the relationship because you think you no longer have to try. Wrong. You need to try harder because the stakes are higher. Breaking up with the boyfriend is different than fighting in court for custody of your children with your soon to be ex-husband. End a relationship with your girlfriend is different than going to trial over alimony, child support, who gets the house, divvying up the 401k and paying 6 figures to the divorce attorney. Don’t become complacent in a relationship or when you get married, who you are behind closed doors will be amplified even more with child custody and money on the line in divorce court. You should not be surprised, your spouse shows you their true colors in the marriage, that’s actually who they are. Believe them.
JAMES: 6. When you get caught cheating, there’s a short window when the person who had the affair, may try to make it up to you.
RACHEL: I absolutely see this, where one partner is riddled with guilt and is trying to reconcile that they know they were in the wrong to cheat on their wife or husband. The other thing I see as a Therapist, my niche is couples counseling and I also see a lot of family alienation cases, is that many times the man is shell shocked by the break-up of his family, bends over backward to be accommodating. I’m not saying women don’t also give in a lot, they can be that way too. But I have a lot of male clients, often the prevailing scenario is that they allow themselves to be taken for a ride because it’s their first divorce, they’re so shell shocked that they don’t know what to do. Men especially, are used to being the provider and the husband, it takes them a moment to process the dissolution of marriage, that this is not their role anymore, it’s no longer a family unit in the way that it was before. I do not like to see either men or women taken advantage of, and I absolutely think that if you’re going through a divorce that you would benefit from therapy because you need support during a very difficult process.
JAMES: 7. As a divorce attorney whose job it is to facilitate the dissolution of marriage, he has strong opinions on why even get married. He asks the question, why marriage.
RACHEL: Listen, my clients are the same as the divorce attorney. I see the same complex relationship scenarios as they do.
Caught in an affair
Kicked out of the house
Divorce papers filed
Child custody battle
Family alienation cases due to affair/divorce
Break-up of an exclusive relationship
Domestic violence
Partner is an alcoholic
Fall out from opening the relationship to multiple sex partners
1-night stands
Casual dating
Juggling multiple sex partners
Disagreement on commitment
Perhaps the divorce attorney is jaded, but you won’t find a more suspicious person than myself. From predatory women to clients with personality disorders and everything in between, I see a lot.
You would think that I’d be anti marriage too, since more of my job than not, is seeing couples in crisis and the after math of break-ups. People usually aren’t going to therapy if they’re getting laid every night and are over the moon happy with their partner. They come when it’s a dumpster fire, when things have been bad for years or decades, often as a last-ditch effort when things are bottom barrel bad.
Yet I remain very positive about love, relationships, lust, romance and the whole nine yards. I am personally very pro marriage. I will give my answer to why marriage.
Humans were built for connection, there is benefit to discipline when you work on your romantic relationship. Real love involves sacrifice, feeling that is worth it over the superficial and the fleeting, any day of the week. Family is the foundation of happiness, it’s also the bedrock for a strong society. You are better off, going after love and trying to keep it in your life, that is better.
That’s my answer. I think that for couples who choose to divorce, that’s their choice to make. But you will not have a strong society, if the family is destroyed, at the core of the family are parents being together to raise their children. Variety and choice are OK, but to discourage marriage and family, seems detrimental if you too, want to live in a strong society. A bunch of singles who jump from one short-term relationship to another and children without parents who’re committed to each other, that’s not the panacea to all that ails us. We need a mix, the ability to choose and learn from our mistakes, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater and discourage marriage and families, will not lead to a stable a society.
The trick is to vet your romantic interest, put in the work necessary for your relationship and realize that real love involves sacrifice. There’s nothing wrong with doing the single thing, if you get divorce then you had your reasons, but it’s also important to promote marriage and family for the stability of society. Marriage is not the panacea to your problems, but neither is it the reason for all that ails you. Be smart, make your choices and let the chips fall where they may. That’s life.
JAMES: 8. We fall in love fast, but fall out of love slowly then all at once.
RACHEL: Love is very nuanced, each person and couple has their own story. How you feel and act with one partner may be different than how you are with the next person. For a Therapist, nuance is the name of the game in romance. But I do understand what James is saying because there are patterns in love. That initial lust when one or both partners are chasing, trying to impress is spectacular and fun. Some theorize that this initial high can last up to two years, regardless of the variance in time, it’s an extremely fun time. I caution my clients, you need to vet a new partner for that entire first year, that timeline can be ramped up based on personality, circumstances, experiences but it’s difficult for most people to hide their true colors past a year. So yes, falling in love can be swift in that anything under that year mark really is nothing in lieu of the years and decades that could ensue if you stayed together long term. I think that when people are doing the calculations, whether subconsciously or consciously, to break-up with someone that those are not done in a vacuum. Meaning that it takes time to accumulate the data, red flags and for things to add up to the point that you are now done. Especially when the stakes are high with assets, reputation, extended families, mutual friends and children now involved. People are mulling things over, this may take a minute, and then when they make the big move to officially separate and/or file for divorce, then the dominoes start moving faster. So the way James explains it, follows that timeline where people are making this inward calculations and then when they actually make a decision, those choices facilitate the process because now you have changes in living situations, childcare arrangements and financial situations.
JAMES: 9. Don’t trash talk your spouse.
RACHEL: I think that this is solid advice for 3 reasons.
What does this say about you, that you chose this person. At one time, you fell in love and/or truly loved that person, this is also a reflection on you. Surely, there was some good there, even if things changed. If you trash that person, you would also need to take a hard look in the mirror, that you chose them.
When you hate someone, even if it feels deserved, you hurt yourself more than them. They move on, you don’t. That’s no way to live.
If you have children with that person, you’re stuck with them for life. If you want to co-parent effectively, do the right thing, be amicable for the sake of your children that you share with that person.
Venting to your friends and also in therapy, that’s OK. But keep those 3 points in mind, that at some point, you need to put your big boy or girl pants on and be the adult in the room. Trashing your ex as routine is rarely healthy or effective for you to move on, for your children to be psychologically safe and for the karma that you’re inevitably redirecting back to yourself.
JAMES: 10. Being hot is incredibly lucrative.
As a divorce attorney, he gives examples where very wealthy men who are very average looking if not unattractive, who married to strikingly stunning women. He said that if you put the couple in a room, that everyone would note the attraction disparity, it was obvious. That’s why he says that being hot is lucrative, the trade off for men has always been youth and beauty and women value success as evidenced by status and money.
RACHEL: My lane is relationships, that means that affairs/divorce/break-ups are scenarios that are an average Tuesday for me, whether it’s couples in therapy or an individual in my Life Coach. If you’re in the relationship lane as I am, then lust and love are the topics de jure.
I am ruthlessly pragmatic.
I have zero problem that men want to be physically attracted to who they choose to date/marry.
I have zero problem that women like competence in status and money in who they choose to date/marry.
I have a problem with delusion, that people are unrealistic, selfish, refuse to accept that they get their equivalent. I live in the real world
The parameter for being on target, is do you attract who you want. If you don’t attract who you want, it’s not that the men are dogs or the women are b!tches, the problem is most likely you. If you do attract who you want, that means your dating market value is equivalent to your expectations.
The good news, everyone can improve themselves. You are not stuck with the status quo, stalemate to your detriment, but it’s always your choice to make. Everyone can get better, but not everyone is willing to do the work to be Top Tier. That’s Life.
JAMES: 11. There’s an aspect of love that’s an economy.
RACHEL: I understand why James said that, he’s a divorce attorney who litigates with assets on the line for his clients. He’s not wrong. I’m a Therapist, my preference is couples counseling, the 3 topics always on the table: Family, Money, Sex. Those are the hot ticket items, that if you’re serious about therapy and fixing your relationship, we will get to those in session. Yes, money is a talking point, it affects your real life so of course it’s also in play in your relationship. Then there are tiers of complexity. Being a single guy out on the town, your biggest worry is spitting the check or paying for dinner is a far cry from a divorce filing with alimony, child support, division of assets on the line. if you’re both poor as church mice and you have no money, you are stressed. If you’re from different socioeconomic backgrounds, attitudes on money, can also cause you stress. If your partner has a gambling problem, spends the rent money on alcohol, has to file for bankruptcy, has a sh!t credit score when you go to buy a car, all those things factor in when you’re now stuck with that person as your partner. Doesn’t matter if you have a little or a lot, you do have to negotiate on money matters in a relationship. As a Therapist, I will ask couples these types of questions, often they do not know.
Do you know your partner’s credit score?
Do you know your partner’s annual salary?
Do you know your partner’s debts?
Do you know how much they pay in alimony and child support?
Do you know your partner’s assets?
Do you know the financial health of their company if they own a business?
Married couples who have been together for over a decade, will not know these answers. Newly married couples, will not know these answers. I know because I straight up ask my clients what they know about their partner’s financial situation, often they know very little. I caution my clients, that they need to know something about their new Boo’s finances, before they ever agree to be exclusive. Why on God’s green earth, would you tie up your availability, to be exclusive with a person, for whom you know next to nothing about their financial situation. Unreal.
JAMES. 12. We don’t reward creatives like a Therapist, who doesn’t make much money but helps people.
RACHEL: Yay! While James and I differ on our views of marriage, he’s anti marriage in sentiment whereas I’m strongly in the pro marriage camp, this is something that we can agree on. Thank you, James, for highlighting therapy as important.
JAMES: 13. Learn how the other person thinks.
RACHEL: This advice is helpful. There’s the male vs female dynamic, there’s socioeconomic background, cultural factors, family dynamics, personal belief systems, individualized experiences and even age factors that come into play. How you are with one boyfriend/girlfriend may differ from how you are with your next partner. Your marriage in your 20’s may vastly differ from the choice you make in your 50’s with wife number 2 or husband number 3. Some things remain the same, but many things are different depending on who you are with. You cannot assume that how you treated your teeny bopper romance will be the same as your serious relationship in your mid 30’s or your second marriage in your 40’s. You change, and the partners you choose will change as well. Each person is an individual, it’s to your benefit, to try to understand things from your partner’s point of view. They are not you, they think different!
JAMES. 14. We break in relationships, and we heal in relationships.
RACHEL: You get to choose, to love and learn, always go for that. Your biggest mistakes will be in heartache. But if you b!tch that you won’t ever trust again or you’re too suspicious of others to look for love again, you only hurt yourself. That hatred toward your ex does nothing to them, they move on. You’re the one stuck with hate, which will turn inward, that you hate yourself. Instead of being afraid of love and allowing bitterness from break-ups to consume you, learn from your mistakes. Move on. Live your life. With love. Always choose love.
JAMES: 15. This is reality of people not being in therapy, they keep making the same mistakes in romance.
RACHEL: High five yet again, James, kudos to you for pointing out the obvious, that therapy can be essential. Rarely, is it super apparent, that we can figure out our sh!t on our own. It’s possible, but it takes longer because when we’re the ones who’re in it, super hard to think clearly and also see with clarity. It’s easier and helpful, to process with someone. With your friends, you can vent a few times, but they neither have the wherewithal or the time, to listen to you ad nauseum. Friends are important, but the bias is there, they side with you, as they should as your friends. If you find a competent Therapist, you can really dig deep, process and plan. There’s feelings + actions, it’s that action piece that’s central in therapy. If you don’t understand yourself, figure out where things went wrong, process what happened, make a plan for your future, is it any wonder, that you often repeat patterns that aren’t good for you. A competent Therapist will help you with both the feelings + actions, the duality of healing and learning from your mistakes, setting yourself up for success in your next romance.
JAMES: 16. Advocates for mental health.
RACHEL: Why yes, I am a fan of prioritizing mental health, i’m in the helping professional after all. In this, we agree, we’re on the same page. Make this your priority, affects both the personal and professional in your life.
JAMES: 17. Who my penis is interested in can be different than what’s good for me.
RACHEL: This is the way I break it down to my clients in both therapy and Life Coach. I explain that the ratio is 70/30. I just pick a number, but you get the idea. 70% is your real life: family, work, friends, children, hobbies, activities, cultural, religion, politics, interests, love, everyday life and dreams for the future. 30% is the fun stuff: sex, lust, romance, initial chase. Of course, work hard and play hard. The married couple can still have moments of exciting sex and romantic trysts decades into their marriage. The newbies can still interject serious talks in between going at it like rabbits and while they put their best foot forward in the first month. But here’s the reality, that real life takes up . . . . MOST OF YOUR LIFE. That’s why, you don’t always see that man leave the affair female, he stays with the wife because he wants to see his kids at night, they have mutual friends, families that have been co-mingled, status in the community and a life together. I’ve seen both men and women, leave their married spouse after an affair. But many times, the affair partner is just sex or that person met your needs until they didn’t, it’s a huge risk to tear apart the life that you have, for what . . . that man or woman . . . was mainly sex. When you’re flummoxed by a romantic scenario, always take into account the 70/30 rule of thumb. Can be a variation of that percentage, but you get the idea. Each person will do a mental calculation in their mind, if their real life is threatened, they often think long and hard about leaving their family and friends, the life they have for . . . just sex . . . Even if that person fell in love with or in some ways loves their affair partner, it will take a lot for them to tear apart their real life for that fraction of fun that new sex or just sex, gave to them. I’m not discounting that affairs and casual sex often provide other things such as emotional support, escape, excitement et cetera. But when push comes to shove, the average man and woman, will think long and hard about that 70/30 split. And their real life is often comprised of 70% and that quick fling or even long affair is still the 30% which is why so many people will not leave their marriage for an affair partner. It’s not worth it. They know it. That’s the relationship with a lot on the line. But the same goes for the newbie romance and new romantic interest, that even if you’re enamored with someone, even if the sex is hot, if that person isn’t a fit for your real life, you may not always choose them. What James is saying when he says the penis is interested but that may not be a person who’s good for you, is that in a nutshell, same percentages apply. That 30% of fun, that this person is good for sex, lust, attraction may not supersede that 70% for what’s your real life. I see it over and over, both men and women will have their fun, but if that new Boo isn’t good enough for their real life, they won’t move it forward. Many times, people choose for the 70% that part that’s their actual life. Rarely, will people give up a lot for a little, if they are smart. Which is why you see the affair person getting the short end of the stick because often they were that 30% fun in the sun, just sex but not good enough for real life. Argue if you want, that you’re different but I am always noting the real life vs momentary fun ratio, it’s very accurate for seeing what people will actually choose to do. Pick any percentage you want, that fits for you but the concept is the same. James is implying that the penis picking for lust isn’t always accurate for what’s good for you in your real life. And when push comes to shove, many times you’ll have sex with that man but he’s not good enough to introduce to your friends or you’ll have sex with that woman but you won’t commit to her. The 70/30 real which is real life trumps lust a lot, when you’re smart.
JAMES: 18. We can’t explain some aspects of our desire.
RACHEL: I love that romance has an element of mystery. But if you’re in my line of work, many times, you can assess for why you do or do not actually like someone. You have to process, it may take a minute, but often you can figure it out. I did this just last week with a client, where she felt very blase about a man who was interested in her, was barely interested and didn’t feel like accepting a 2nd date. When I asked the details, I pointed out the exact problem spots, that made her disinterested. No, it’s not some mystery. There’s a reason for why you think and act the way that you do. It’s a little bit of work to process, many don’t feel like doing that work. But there are both biological and psychological reasons for the things that we do. It takes work to process, most are too lazy to do that, but being lazy doesn’t mean it’s impossible to figure out. I love the mystery element of romance, but for my work, I’m being asked to help my clients process, so that’s what we do.
JAMES: 19. Preventative maintenance is key.
RACHEL: I’m a Therapist and I love working with couples because it’s more complex working with two people vs one. I like that. But the problem with couples is that they often come to therapy when it’s on the brink of too late or only one of them wants to work on the relationship. It’s very common to see couples come in when divorce has already been brought up, when one of the partners has been caught in an affair, when things are at a crisis. It would have been a lot easier if they had come to therapy months or even years prior to when they did. Everyone thinks you go to therapy when it’s a dumpster fire, but if you play with fire, you’re going to get burned. If it’s a sh!t show, is it the Therapist’s fault when it’s so far gone, that neither partner will put in the work because they have one foot halfway out the door. 100% go to therapy when things are OK or to iron out the simple stuff. Your life will be easier coming in for preventative maintenance vs throwing your husband out of the house for cheating or finding out your out your wife had sex with another man. On this, James and I both agree, preventative maintenance would be better for your mental health and your marriage.
JAMES: 20. Figuring out how to sustain that high of new love is key.
RACHEL: There are varying opinions on how long that new love high lasts. Some say two years, others indicate less time. Regardless, I always tell my clients, enjoy a romance when it’s new. It’s super fun, very exciting and nothing better in the world than falling in love. Whether or not that new lust feeling will develop into real love, is a different story. But no one is debating, that the high of new love, is intoxicating. For my clients, I always tell them, you have to asses at the 3 month, 6 month, 9 month mark of a newbie romance. You must see how you feel after 1 year. The reason is that you must vet that new person, you don’t actually know them in the beginning. I like the barometer of 1 year because it’s very difficult to maintain a facade over that amount of time. You let things slip, you show glimpses of your real self. But predatory women or unscrupulous men, they can hide a lot but they cannot hide it forever. Especially individuals with personality disorders, they can hide that part from you for awhile, but eventuallly they too, will crack. So you want to see a person over the course of 1 year, and you must put them in your real life. If this is long distance or you only go on fancy pants dates or fun vacays, you really think you’re going to see that person angry, embarrassed, in moments of duress and stress. You must put that person in real life, the sooner you do, the faster you will see their real colors. So it’s both, you have to put them in your real life and that other person has to decide how long to keep up the facade vs allowing their real self to come through. When we talk about the high of new love, it’s really lust, that we’re talking about. Sorry to phrase it so abruptly, but that high you’re feeling, is a mix of lust and new. And when the new wears off and the lust has been satiated because the fascination with new has worn off, that’s when you can see the real person and also decide if they fit into your real life. For me, the high of new lust, is child’s play. It’s organic, it’s biologically driven with elements of the psychological, it’s special but common. For me, for the work, I’m interested in after the newness wears off, after the lust has dissipated . . . and then. Can you build a life with this person, can you communicate and fight effectively, can you maintain interest after that easy peasy 1 year. Within an exclusive relationship, whether it’s on the shorter end or decades long, you can still experience romantic highs. You should work for that, and it is work after the newbie lust phase wears off. Absolutely, you should want lust highs amidst the real love, strive for that. But the new high, nothing like it in the world, enjoy it while it lasts. But always remember that even if it doesn’t feel quite the same after the 1-2 year mark, it doesn’t mean that romance is dead or that lust is over. It means that the new lust high is very special, but so is building a life with someone and developing real life, that comes with time and work.
JAMES: 21. Sentiment that is seemingly more anti-marriage.
RACHEL: I understand, James Sexton is a high profile divorce attorney to the rich and famous. Of course, he’s jaded, he hears a lot. But I am not jaded, and I hear a lot too. The divorce attorney knows the details of the assets on the table, the affairs affecting the case, the bitter child custody on the line. The Therapist knows about the motives and feelings behind the actions. We are aware of similar things, but our interests are for different things. The divorce attorney needs the dirt to get you the best deal in court. The Therapist wants to understand the dirt, help you process and heal from digging in that sh!t. When your job is to hear the bad and the ugly, I understand why the divorce attorney is jaded. But I hear bad stuff too, and I’m not jaded. Perhaps because some of the time, I help couples come out the other side, together and happier. James is seemingly more anti-marriage, we differ in that I am solidly on team marriage, I always will be. I can’t look my clients in the eye and tell them “I will help you if I can” if I’m Debbie Downer who thinks it’s not actually possible. I believe that your success depends on how hard you work, either in the relationship that you have or a future one, you can be successful in romance. I will always believe that.
JAMES: 22. The more buttoned up someone is, often the more kinky they are behind closed doors.
RACHEL: This is fascinating to me. Interesting. My take isn’t so much for kink but more for run of the mill, that I will say people would be shocked at who goes to therapy. In therapy, I’ve had Senior VP females and VP level males, good looking and put together types, do go to therapy. In my Life Coach, I’ve had Chairs of the most competitive medicine specialties, Special Forces and high profile clients. So this is less about kink, but I laugh when people ignorantly prattle that only the low tier types go to therapy. Unless you do my job, you do not know. So right, kink. I’m not interested in the voyeuristic aspect of sex, I’m only interested in the details if it explains something about motive, feelings, actions. I think James is referencing kink in that the ones you’d least expect, are those involved in it. When we surface judge, that can be accurate, that you really don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors. I know because it’s my job to get under the hood of the car so to speak. And kink, not really sure what you expect me to know. Pornography addiction, erectile dysfunction, swingers, polyamory, open relationships, gender identity issues, group sex. What do you expect me to say, that’s in play, if your lane is relationships. What’s very common and not kink, infidelity and jealousy, that’s run of the mill. I don’t care about kink, I care about motives, feelings, actions that are in play for my clients. Anecdotally, the most confused I ever got, when it’s multiple relationships for which the individuals identify as not their original gender. I think it was up to 5-6 partners, keeping track was difficult because the male name was for someone who had been born a biological female, remembering whose partner was whose, also their preferred gender or non-gender got confusing for me. I did my best. I tried. I super tried. Everyone’s version of kink is different, my job is to listen and learn, what you like is your choice.
JAMES: 23. Marriage is like the lottery, you probably won’t win. Have a pre-nup.
RACHEL: Of course, James sentiment veers anti-marriage, look at what he does for his job, the dissolution of marriage. That he has a negative view of marriage, that’s to be expected, just by the nature of what he does for a living. My job, is to help couples process break-ups and also salvage relationships. The lens through which I view marriage is different, I’m an active participant as the Therapist in couple counseling, to try to helop that couple save that relationship. I have hope, I advocate for wins in relationships because that’s my work. As it pertains to pre-nups, it’s possible that 90% of the populace, would benefit from a pre-nup. Most people are selfish, they won’t be fair, in the dissolution of marriage, especially with assets on the line and money on the table. You won’t really know how someone is going to act, unless that person has gone through a divorce, then you have their actions as a case study, to see what they actually did under duress. I have zero problem with most of the populace signing a pre-nup. Most people go out of their minds in a break-up, divorce, finding out about an affair. Most people would benefit from a pre-nup. Unless someone has gone through a divorce and you have that as a case study, to see how they acted, it’s difficult to know how they will actually behave until it happens. People really go out of their mind during a break-up, divorce, affair. I have zero problem with 90% of the populace most likely benefiting from a pre-nup. Perhaps only 10% would be truly fair, they don’t need to sign a pre-nup. I personally will not sign a pre-nup, it’s my belief that I’m in the top tier that won’t act badly. Anyone who actually knows me, would realize how I am, my actions have also proved how I will act. But for 90%, sure, sign a pre-nup.
JAMES: 24. Infidelity starts on social media.
RACHEL: Since I launched my Life Coach business in 2020, I have gotten questions. And for the people who want to have their cake and eat it too, they want to stay married but cheat, my advice has never changed. I tell anyone who asks me, do it the right way. If you do not like your spouse, file for divorce and then date. I am ruthlessly pragmatic, that’s why I’m good at my job. I live in the real world, I do not indulge in delusion. And in the modern era with the technology that we have, you will get caught if you cheat. Perhaps not the first time, but if you’re a serial philanderer, yes, you will get caught. And then there will be hell to pay. If before you could have navigated a difficult divorce, now you’ll have an ex who’s out for blood and will tell your children forever and always, what a dirtbag cheater you are. It’s not worth it. If you’re unhappy in your marriage, file for divorce, do the hard thing. Because if you try to have your cake and eat it too, it’s going to be worse for you. And I’m not even talking the emotional fallout, that you hurt your spouse that at one time you did love. I have never deterred from this advice, that I tell anyone who asks me, do it the right way. File for divorce, then date. Sorry, in an age of technology and with social media, you will get caught if you continue to cheat. I’ve had hot shots tell me they’re experts in IT and know how to cover their tracks. My rejoinder is that it doesn’t matter how adept you are at technology, you do NOT control the other person that you’re having an affair, 1-night stand or casual sex with. You do NOT control them, and when angry or scorned, you don’t know what they will do. It doesn’t matter if you use WhatsApp with it’s disappearing messages, have your burner phone or delete your texts, you do NOT control that other person, you idiot. The real reason that I advocate for filing for divorce or breaking up before you date, is that this is for YOU. That you want to feel good about yourself, that there’s such a thing as Karma. Watever you put out into the Universe, will come back to you. If you cheat, then you attract unfaithful types, you too, will have infidelity backfire back at you. The real reason, to do things cleanly, is for YOU. If you get caught this time or the next, is immaterial in light of that YOU know what YOU do. Do it the right way, for YOU.
JAMES: 25. Everyone considering getting married should have to spend 1 hour with a divorce attorney.
RACHEL: I personally think spending 1 hour with the Therapist trumps that of the divorce attorney. But that’s just me.
JAMES: 26. It’s $750 per hour for his time.
RACHEL: The attorneys that I recommend are in the $300 to $500 per hour range. Yes, I keep track of attorneys who do a good job and I know the results that my clients have received. Although my field is not the law, many of my clients come to therapy in crisis while going through a divorce. I’m appalled when it appears that attorneys are incompetent or that they don’t care about the clients, they bilk them for money. It often appears that attorneys want couples to fight, means more money for them. If you’re an attorney who’s competent and you do your job, good for you. But for the dirtbag attorneys who view divorces as their cash cow and care nothing for the client, that disgusts me. These are real people, they’re in my office at very low points in their life. I care. I recommend that before you spend 6 figures on your divorce, that you go to therapy earlier in your relationship before it’s a dumpster fire. Therapy is cheaper, even if your marriage doesn’t work out, processing will still be helpful for your next relationship. Divorce is expensive.
JAMES: 27. Marriage trends. People getting married later, more pre-nups, having children later.
RACHEL: Interesting. Sounds about right.
JAMES: 28. People lie that they got a pre-nup.
RACHEL. Yes, people lie to save face. Status is very important to people. This does not suprprise me that the populace is lying through their teeth about what they present to the world as their life vs . . . their real life. James talks about celebrity clients that he has, where they will do press and say they do not have a pre-nup and he’s the one who worked on their signed pre-nups. Sounds about right, that people lie a lot. As a Therapist, I know about the dating, break-ups, affairs, and divorce side of things where people present a certain face to their ex or new romantic Boo, which can be in direct opposition to their real feelings. I know because I ask. I’ll ask a single man, “Is she just sex” and he will tell me. All this time, that girl, thinks she has a shot with him. I’ll ask a person in the course of getting the relationship history “How many affairs?” and they will tell me. Sometimes the ex wife or ex husband doesn’t even know that their partner cheated, but I will know. I’ll ask men, “Would you have chosen to marry her if left to your own devices” and they will tell me. I know things that sometimes would break the heart of that person’s partner, but that’s the work, secrets. I’m not surprised that James knows for a fact that his clients lie. My clients lie too, but if they lie too much to me, I cannot work with them. There are lies of self-delusion or non-disclosure, I can work with a client who lies in the beginning or is deciding how much to trust me, but I won’t work with a client who continuously lies to me. Sorry, no real work can be done, if you continue to lie to me in your therapy or Life Coach sessions.
JAMES: 29. The pragmatic approach has value.
RACHEL: For as much as I’m pie in the sky and love romance, I am ruthlessly pragmatic. That’s why I’m good at my job. I live in the real world, I will not suffer your delusion for long. This may seem diametrically opposed to my work which is dealing with your feelings. While emotions are essential, so is pragmatism. So we walk that fine line in therapy and Life Coach, to acknowledge and work with your feelings but also be pragmatic for the results that you want.
JAMES: 30. How do you reconcile working with a client that you don’t agree with the choices they’ve made.
RACHEL: I understand this question because in my personal life, I promised myself that I would use my influence for good. For my relationship newsletter on Substack, my Rumble channel and social media posts, I promote Faith in God, Love of Country, Family over Everything. Yet for my work, I advocate for client self-determination which is in my field’s Code of Ethics. I very much understand this question. That you may have your own beliefs and bias, but you must also do the right thing by your clients. For me, it’s simple. You have your life, those are your choices, you are ultimately responsible for your decisions. My role is to help you process, but it’s your life. That’s how I rationalize the work. For example, I’m a Therapist in a blue state, yet my clients never know how I really feel, that I am America First in my beliefs. They have the right to their opinion, I do not influence my clients on policy or politics. That’s not the role, my work is to help my clients process relationships in the personal and professional. Yet in my personal life, I write about the topics that are important to me, including morality + masculinity and advocating for the family. If you’re really competent in your field, you will understand the difference in having beliefs for yourself vs allowing autonomy for your clients, that they have the right to live their life in the way that they want, that they get to choose, called self-determination.
DIVORCE ATTORNEY vs THERAPIST
There you go, my response to 30 points that divorce attorney James Sexton made in reference to relationships. Our clients are the same, we both know secrets. The divorce attorney has the dirt to defend a client in a divorce trial. The Therapist is privy to the down and dirty for the purpose of processing, healing, and salvaging relationships when possible. I feel like attorneys and Therapists are like two sides of a coin, we work closely on similar topics, but we are also different in our approaches. I hope you find this helpful if you’re in a relationship or curious about romance.
My hope for you, that you find love in your life.
rhmaldonado.com
Photo: James Sexton/divorce attorney + Rachel Maldonado/Therapist